Jess Hilburn, executive director of Benson Memorial Library, and Brandi Scardilli, editor of ITI NewsBreaks, provide their hot takes on the 2025 Oscar nominations in their fourth annual awards season conversation, this time held over Google Chat on Jan. 23, the day the nominations were announced. They break down the Best Picture nominees and discuss which ones deserve to be on the list, which ones they could have left out, and other movies from the past year that are worth celebrating.

The 2025 Oscars will take place on Sunday, March 2, at 7 p.m. on ABC.

Follow Jess and Brandi on Letterboxd: Jess is @jm910, and Brandi is @bsloths.

The opinions of the participants do not reflect endorsement by any organization. This conversation has been edited for clarity.

Introduction

Brandi: I’m happy to be having our annual Oscars conversation, but of course right now is a very difficult time for the entertainment industry with so many people part of it having been affected by the Los Angeles fires. We are talking the day of the nominations on Jan. 23, which was pushed back twice because so many Academy members had to flee their homes. So obviously, we have to keep that in mind as we talk about what got nominated this year. The last thing people really saw on the campaign trail before the nominations was the Golden Globes.

Do you have anything you’d like to note about the situation the Oscars are in this year? Give me your general impressions before we start digging into the Best Picture nominees.

Jess: First, happy to be talking with you about this because Oscar season is my second favorite season! Though we’ll never get to know, I’d be so interested to see what the response percentage was amongst Oscar ballots. I’m getting the feeling there were more international ballots returned and fewer American ones than normal, given the flavor of the nominations, but maybe not! We’ll never know for sure. There are around 10,000 Academy members, and I wonder what their typical response rates are in general. (And if they ever want to make me a member, I promise to respond 100% of the time.)

Brandi: Wait, this isn’t your first favorite season? What is?

Jess: Oscars will always come in second to my girl fall. I feel like this is a “What’s your perfect date?” question, and I’m the April 25 girl. Fall never disappoints me, but the Oscars often do.

Brandi: Oh, makes sense to me!

The other major factor affecting the Oscars is the Trump administration. Sebastian Stan got a Best Actor nomination for playing the sitting president in a movie, which I’m pretty confident in saying has never happened. Stan has not been shy about criticizing Trump.

And Karla Sofía Gascón is the first out trans person to be nominated (Elliot Page wasn’t out yet when he was nominated for Juno), and the current administration just put out an executive order saying that the government only recognizes two genders, cisgender male and cisgender female. So that’s going to loom large over Gascón’s campaign, even though she’s not American.

Emilia Pérez

Jess: While I have immensely negative feelings about Emilia Pérez as a film, and as an idea—I could go on—I have nothing but positive feelings for Gascón, and I’m proud the Academy nominated her both to elevate her profile—and hopefully she gets more roles because of it—and also to show that despite what this administration says, trans people exist, will always exist, and deserve to be in the spotlight.

I just wish the highlighting of trans stories was being done through a better, more representative movie that didn’t have such regressive tones on the subject.

Brandi: Well said! I think people love it because it’s such a big swing. Does it belong on the Best Picture list?

Jess: Absolutely not. If it wins Best Picture, it will be the worst Best Picture winner ever, in my view.

The songs are atrocious, the writing is lazy, and I have no idea why it was nominated for cinematography. The storylines are offensive. The actors are clearly talented people. That’s the only thing it has going for it.

Aside from the poor understanding of transness, it also fails to understand Latino culture. This is where I lean into saying we need more “own voices” content. And when the people depicted are telling you it’s offensive, listen to them. I cannot understand why the Academy isn’t listening.

Brandi: It’s frustrating. I have no interest in seeing it for those reasons. I should watch and judge for myself, but I just don’t want to. Nothing about the storyline appeals to me. I’m going to recommend the documentary Will & Harper instead. It’s moving, sweet, and funny, and it doesn’t shy away from the struggles of being trans while also celebrating trans joy. It’s a life-affirming movie that everyone should watch to learn more about trans people if they’d like to understand their experiences better.

I’m happy for Zoe Saldaña though because she’s been doing such consistently good work for so long, so I’m looking at her nomination as a career achievement nod.

Jess: I loved Will & Harper and was sad, though not surprised given the Academy’s allergy to celebrity docs, to see it wasn’t nominated. Fully co-sign that recommendation!

Emilia Pérez is to Zoe Saldaña what The Revenant was to Leo. Except The Revenant wasn’t patently offensive, except maybe to the bear community, to my knowledge. But the idea stands.

Anora

Brandi: Anora doesn’t appeal to me because it’s yet another movie about sex work. Aren’t there enough of those movies? Can’t women have other jobs? Tell me why Anora should or shouldn’t be nominated.

Jess: Anora should be nominated. Though I completely understand that sentiment! I too am tired of one-note depictions. But that’s where Anora breaks out of the shell. As a character, she’s so complex and interesting, and her story arc over the course of the film really pulls you in. While I was upset to learn the set did not employ an intimacy coordinator, given the graphic sexual nature of multiple scenes, I still think about the movie in a positive way. And I’m shocked I do!

I hated, and I mean hated, Poor Things last year. I feared Anora would leave me with the same taste in my mouth, given the subject. It did not. The main character Annie is bold, takes no prisoners, and suffers no fools. At least she thinks she does. She’s been through a lot in her young life, but she’s not a character to be pitied. And I loved that about her.

Yura Borisov plays a supporting character in the film, and I’m so glad to see him get nominated for it. The camera lingers on his expressions in these beautiful ways. Sean Baker’s direction shows you the interiority of the characters without oversharing or overexplaining. It’s deftly controlled. He deserves those directing and editing nominations immensely.

Brandi: That’s so good to hear!

The Substance

Jess: Another woman-centered Best Picture nominee is The Substance. I don't believe you’ve seen it, right? But do you have any reactions to the content, given anything you have heard?

Brandi: If something is labeled body horror, I’m not going to watch it. I still shudder thinking about that fingernail scene in Black Swan when Natalie Portman starts peeling … and nope, I’m shuddering. I can’t even keep thinking about it. Demi Moore is amazing; I have always loved her. I’m thrilled she’s getting recognition.

Jess: Ugh, now that you mention it, I also viscerally remember that scene!

I think Moore is the front-runner to win. She’s absolutely spectacular in that role, and until the last 30–40 minutes, I was so into the movie. It’s gross, but I loved the concept and the execution. And was thrilled when they read Coralie Fargeat’s name in the Best Director category! A woman! Can you believe?!

Brandi: It’s great! I so appreciate the movie’s storyline, and it’s an important story to tell, so the fact that it a) exists and b) is getting recognition is awesome.

Wicked

Brandi: There are two more woman-centered Best Picture nominees! Wicked and I’m Still Here.

Jess: While I loved Wicked, that one is much more your baby, so I’m interested to hear how you felt it did today with nominations?

Brandi: Ariana Grande and Cynthia Erivo—much-deserved nominations. Technical categories—much-deserved. I love Jon M. Chu, and he deserved a directing nomination for what he accomplished, but I get that he wasn’t going to make the five-person cut.

This is going to shock you, but my hot take is that maybe Wicked doesn’t really belong in the Best Picture race. I’ve seen it three times, I love it, and it’s such a good, good movie. But it’s not about anything, really: It’s an adaptation of a stage show where everything is big, bombastic, and emotional. 

There’s a message about being true to yourself, and it’s helping people who feel othered feel seen, which is all fantastic. I adore this movie. But it’s bubblegum. It’s a popcorn movie. It has a bazillion plot holes because of the source material. I would much rather its slot be taken up by A Real Pain, which is a gut-punch of a movie that is perfect. I really hope Jesse Eisenberg wins Screenplay. Or its spot could have been taken by Challengers, which is a movie that knocked my socks off in a million ways. The second time I watched it, my opinion of Zendaya’s character completely shifted. I think I’ll find another layer to it the next time I watch it. Same with A Real Pain. It has layers. Wicked is a world I love spending time in, but it’s not the best film of the year.

Jess: Alas, the Best Pictures rarely are. I too would have preferred to see A Real Pain in there. I’d just remove Emilia Pérez to get it there, but we both know that wasn’t an option.

Do you think it is appealing at all in particular right now because of the “fight the power” themes? How Elphaba is fighting the corruption from the outside while Glinda fights from the inside? And how not everyone is what or who they seem at first?

Definitely a popcorn movie with a profound coating, I think!

Brandi: I think those themes will be much richer and deeper in the second part. So maybe I will want that movie on the list! Yeah, I guess it’s less that I don’t want Wicked on the list and more that there are movies I wish could have made it.

Dune: Part Two

Jess: The curse of the Part Two! That’s why Dune keeps getting in and then ignored too. Except for, it’s the three-part curse!

Brandi: Dune’s just so thrilling, though. It deserves to be invited to the party, but the nominations are the win. While we’re on the blockbusters, anything else to say about Dune? I still think about that riding-the-sandworm scene. Incredible movie magic!

Jess: I just love Dune so much. It’s so well shot (thank you, Greig Fraser) and acted and designed. Another movie salient for our times with its themes. I can’t wait for the third part. And that’s probably how Academy voters feel too. “When Part Three comes out, then we’ll give it awards.” At least, that’s what I hope.

Also, Timothée Chalamet being the lead of two Best Picture nominees? The great actor of our times has arrived! Proud to say I’ve been on the Timmy train for many a year. He was snubbed for his performance in Beautiful Boy, and I’ve been salty on his behalf ever since.

Brandi: I can’t say I was on the train with you, but boy did I hop on after Little Women. And he takes the work so seriously in a good way. He’s not brooding or method-y, just a young guy who likes to goof around and have fun but is excellent at his job. I want him to win Best Actor so badly!

Jess: He just seems like an excellent craftsman and a fun guy to be around. I love when someone can be spectacular at their job and also not be insufferable. Is that a subtle jab on my part, you may ask? Yeah, but I love the insufferables too.

If the boy who sang “Statistics” can make it big, the world is our oyster, I tell ya.

I hope he wins as well, but I think Adrien Brody might get his second Oscar. What do you think as of right now?

Brandi: Brody seems to be pulling ahead, yeah. And of course, Ralph Fiennes could take it too.

Jess: Ralph, be still my beating heart.

A Complete Unknown

Brandi: Let’s talk about Chalamet’s other movie, A Complete Unknown. Bob Dylan was a jerk through the whole movie. I didn’t understand whether we were supposed to cheer for him when he bucked the system because he also screwed over his friend and mentor while he was doing it. The movie didn’t explain to me enough what an influence on music he was and why he deserves a biopic. My parents loved it because they lived through it. I was sort of lukewarm on it.

Jess: He’s kind of unlikable in general, so I think it’s just trying to be an honest description. But I find the idea of the tortured, cruel genius quite boring, personally. I think we are supposed to recognize both his artistry and his objective coldness toward people who cared for him. You can’t even chalk it up to youth because though he was only about 24 at that point, he hasn’t changed much over the years in that capacity. Unknowable people aren’t that interesting to me. People love him for his mystery, and I find “mysterious” men to be lacking any critical self-reflection, which is not a trait I enjoy.

Brandi: See, I didn’t even know that he has that reputation. I knew absolutely nothing about Dylan going into it. I had no clue who Joan Baez was. I would have guessed Pete Seeger was in The Grateful Dead or The Who. That’s how ignorant of this history I was.

Jess: It does expect a good amount of background knowledge, and I caught myself thinking back to you telling me that before and agreeing while watching the movie.

Brandi: A Complete Unknown is similar to Bohemian Rhapsody—difficult and prickly artist proves why he’s great, with re-created concert footage aplenty. But the key difference from that movie is that Monica Barbaro, Timothée Chalamet, and Edward Norton do their own singing and playing. Every second of their performances is electric. It’s a paint-by-numbers movie that is elevated by the music. I like it the more I think about it, actually. I’ve been thinking about it a lot since I saw it, and I really am appreciating how we get dropped into the early ’60s and are experiencing the changing folk scene along with the characters.

Jess: I’m a huge Ed Norton fan, so seeing him get some recognition for this is wonderful. The first movie I remember noticing him in was The Illusionist, and I’ve been low-key in love ever since. It’s really a perfect movie because it also has another love of my life, Paul Giamatti. Justice for The Illusionist!

Brandi: I remember loving that movie! It got overshadowed by The Prestige, the other magician movie the same year, and Christopher Nolan’s reign has never ended.

Jess: Alas.

I thought Monica Barbaro was fun in Top Gun: Maverick, so I was happy to see her getting these bigger roles!

Brandi: I watched a very cute rom-com that Barbaro was in a couple of years ago called At Midnight, so I was very excited to keep seeing her pop up.

Jess: The Academy loves when an actor really puts themselves out there and, gasp, sings. So, I think everyone in this movie has a better than zero chance to win even with other strong contenders.

Something that just hit me the more I think about A Complete Unknown is that the movie is not there to convince you to appreciate Bob Dylan. It’s expecting that you’re already in awe of him. And I think that may be a fatal flaw of its ability to transcend over time.

Brandi: That is such a good point!

Jess: James Mangold doesn’t deserve to be within a mile radius of an Oscar, and Edward Berger deserved that Director spot.

Brandi: I forgot Mangold was on the list of directors until I looked again and was like, really?

Conclave

Jess: Have you watched Conclave or not yet?

Brandi: Sigh. I keep meaning to, but I don’t. I don’t know why I can’t just make myself sit down and watch it. I don’t have any interest in papal matters (beyond Dan Brown’s Angels & Demons, basically). And I don’t have the stomach for political content more overt than Wicked right now, and I know Conclave is a political allegory for our current situation. I keep hearing how great it is, and yet I would rather watch Wicked for a fourth time. Do you think it could pull off winning Best Picture? People do love it. You did, right?

Jess: I love Conclave. It was one of my top movies of 2024. I saw it in the theater, and then I watched it again at home with the family. I do have a passing interest in Catholicism from a historical perspective, so that part intrigues me. The movie itself is beautiful storytelling. Edward Berger getting no Best Director nomination yet again for a wonderfully directed movie is highway robbery. Ralph Fiennes is moving and subtle, the supporting cast is outstanding (Cardinal Tedesco is an underrated gem of a character, and the actor, Sergio Castellitto, is superb), the score is phenomenal (which isn’t surprising since it’s from Volker Bertelmann, who also wrote the All Quiet on the Western Front score, which is one of my top three favorites of all time), and the production design is exquisite. I know it’s an “old Academy” and super traditional pick, but it checked all the boxes for me.

Figures, my favorite of the group would be the one with literally one woman in it for a few minutes when I’m over here always screaming for more women nominees. I’ll deal with my internal crisis later.

But at least Isabella Rossellini was nominated. The quintessential “there are no small parts” nominee!

Brandi: But that’s exactly how we want it—we don’t need them to stop making movies about men. There’s nothing wrong with movies about old white men. Just make more movies about everybody else, and when men are the stars, the movie had better be excellent. And this sounds like it was, so good for them.

I need to watch it before the Oscars. Last year, I saw almost all of the Best Picture nominees, and this year, I’m really slacking. I watched ones like The Bikeriders and Saturday Night that I loved but whose Oscar hopes died on the vine. That’s just how it goes sometimes, I guess!

Jess: Don’t remind me about The Bikeriders. My truest love of 2024. That’s my biggest snub. What a gorgeous, perfect, well-acted diamond of a movie.

The Nominees We Can’t See Yet

Brandi: We have The Brutalist, I’m Still Here, and Nickel Boys left to discuss. I don’t think any of the three are playing near either of us, that I can tell.

Jess: I can’t wait to see all three of those! And you’re right, they aren’t playing anywhere near me either. I know Apple TV+ picked up I’m Still Here, so eventually it’ll be out there, though who knows how long that will take. Hopefully, it gets a wider release now that it’s racked up some nominations.

Sing Sing was in a theater near me for two or three weekdays and then gone, so that was disappointing as well.

Brandi: I have been trying to see Sing Sing for months, but every time I look for it, it’s nowhere to be found.

Jess: I’m tired of these nonsensical release strategies. For the thousandth time, let people see movies! If you’re going to release them in select theaters, don’t then gatekeep them for the rest of the country for months in between. It kills momentum.

Brandi: I did see that my theater is doing an Oscars film fest—$40 to see every nominated movie over the 2 weeks before the Oscars ceremony. So smart!

Availability at the Library

Brandi: That brings us to what’s already on DVD and Blu-ray for libraries to lend. Wicked comes out on physical media on Feb. 4. Dune: Part Two is out.

One of the things we like to do with this conversation is to share non-nominated movies we love. Libraries may very well have a movie like The Bikeriders in their collection already, so they can recommend that while Wicked’s DVD is on hold. I just need to share my two main points about The Bikeriders, which I know I’ve told you already: 1) It’s a story of a biker gang that centers on one of the wives; she drives the story, and 2) The main character learns important lessons about healthy masculinity. Just saying, it’s a great movie for 2025.

Jess: Conclave is also out on DVD and has already circulated a few times at my library. Emilia Pérez probably won’t get a DVD release, at least for a long time—and we are lucking out there.

The Substance just came out on DVD this week, so no data for that yet, but it is available. Anora’s street date isn’t until April 29, so we don’t get data on that pre-Oscars either. The rest are probably way too far out, sadly.

Other Movies Worth Your Time

Jess: Are there any other highlights from the nominees (non-Best Picture) that you were excited about?

Brandi: I was happy to see “The Journey” from The Six Triple Eight get nominated. It’s not a great movie, per se, but it highlights a part of World War II history I didn’t know, and the song plays during a very uplifting ending where we see footage of the real women of the Six Triple Eight. It’s worth a watch for the performances (Kerry Washington is wonderful) and the history. How about you?

Jess: That’s a cool highlight! And also, Diane Warren’s 16th nomination. And eighth in a row.

Nosferatu in production design I was happy to see. Didn’t love the movie, but the design was beautifully done. In animated feature, I loved The Wild Robot and have been eagerly anticipating Flow! I also went to the Manhattan Short Film Festival this year, so I’ve seen two of the nominated live shorts in theaters, and I highly recommend checking out I’m Not a Robot. I’ll also be watching The Girl With the Needle on MUBI, which is a nominee in International Feature. I’m bracing myself for it because the subject is a very tough one.

Brandi: That’s great you’ve seen so much already!

Jess: For movies that didn’t make it into the awards conversation but are still worth your time, I’d highlight Humanist Vampire Seeking Consenting Suicidal Person, Challengers, Lisa Frankenstein, I Saw the TV Glow, Suncoast, Thelma, and The Greatest Night in Pop. Some of which are already out on DVD and could be available at your local library.

Brandi: We love to see it! I’ll add Black Barbie, Hit Man, and Am I OK? from my personal favorites of 2024 list. I think that wraps up our official conversation?

Jess: I think so, unless you have anything else you’d like to add?

Brandi: Nope! As always, I enjoy spending the Oscar season with you!

Jess: Same here! I look forward to many more of our opinions in the future.

Movie posters are from imdb.com.